Straits Area Snowmobile Club Forums
 

Go Back   Straits Area Snowmobile Club Forums > News & Information > Club News
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Club News Check out what is going on in the Straits Club

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-20-2012, 12:58 PM   #1
Snow VP
Administrator
 
Snow VP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Ignace
Posts: 2,825
Default Trail Signage 2012-2013

This thread will consolidate all discussion for the new signing and standards for the upcoming snowmobile sign changes.

All press releases will be posted here.

Questions and discussion are welcome, however lets remember this is a done deal, it is/has happened and we are not going to be able to change it now.

Brushing and signing this season will involve removing most signs (except stop/stop ahead) on our trail system and placing some new signs here and there. Work in the following years will be much less intensive.
__________________
-- Neil
VP Straits Area Snowmobile Club
Snow VP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 01:02 PM   #2
Snow VP
Administrator
 
Snow VP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Ignace
Posts: 2,825
Default Re: Trail Signage 2012-2013

The first press lelease that I have seen on this is attached. This is a little misleading in my opinion as it does not articulate the number of signs coming down, but at least it is starting to get the word out.

Quote:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
June 18, 2012
Contact: Steve Kubisiak, 517-373-1665 or Ed Golder, 517-335-3014
DNR improves trail signage for this season’s ORV, snowmobile riders
The Department of Natural Resources announced today that snowmobile and off-road vehicle (ORV) trail riders will soon notice a reduction in the types of trail markings along the more than 10,000 miles of Michigan’s designated motorized trail system. The DNR implemented these changes to improve safety and provide consistent guidance to the more than 90 non-profit organizations that maintain the trails.
A citizens’ advisory workgroup (comprised of trail-riding enthusiasts, trail maintenance organizations, members of the DNR’s Snowmobile Advisory Workgroup and the Michigan Snowmobile Association) made recommendations to the DNR, resulting in these upcoming changes. Technical support for the workgroup was provided by recreation and law enforcement staff of the DNR and the U.S. Forest Service.
Changes include the elimination of 10 workgroup-selected snowmobile signs, the addition of five new snowmobile signs (plus guidelines for placement), and a reduction in the size of regulatory signs in the ORV program to make them consistent with snowmobile signage (already implemented in 2011). The changes also include replacing ORV trail markers with new, highly visible, yellow markers. Installation will be phased in over the next several years.
The following snowmobile trail signs will be removed:
  • Bridge Ahead
  • Chevron
  • Deer Crossing
  • Drift Area
  • Narrow Bridge
  • Narrow Trail
  • Crossing
  • Truck Traffic
  • Two Way Trail
  • Winding Trail
New snowmobile trail signs include:
  • Combination Horizontal Alignment/Intersection (left and right)
    (These bright yellow signs with directional arrows may be used on snowmobile trails to give notice of changes in horizontal trail alignment less than 90 degrees where an intersection occurs within or immediately adjacent to a turn)
  • "Private Drives Ahead"
    (These signs may be used to warn trail users where driveways cross a snowmobile trail)
  • One-Direction Large Arrow (left and right)
    (These signs will be used on snowmobile trails to give notice of changes in horizontal trail alignment of 90 degrees or more. One-direction Large Arrow signs are 10 x 20 inches, yellow reflective signs with a black arrow and border)
  • "Next (number of) Miles" - supplemental plaque
    (These signs may be installed below “Private Drives Ahead” signs to indicate how many miles long the stretch of trail with private drives runs)
  • "Trail Closed to Wheeled Motor Vehicles Ahead"
    (When used, these signs should be placed on state or federal land prior to the point where a designated state snowmobile trail enters private property where wheeled motorized vehicle use is prohibited)
The DNR will continue to mark 90-degree turns with “sharp turn” warning signs supplemented with a new directional arrow. The new snowmobile trail signage program will go into effect at the start of the 2012-13 snowmobile season.
According to Bill Manson, executive director of the Michigan Snowmobile Association, “Several of the other snowmobile states and Ontario have reduced their signs and have seen a reduction in accidents. Our objective is to provide a safe, family-oriented trail system for snowmobiling in Michigan.”
“The changes to the motorized trail signage program is the result of a collaborative process with stakeholder groups and should be a real improvement for trail users,” said Ron Olson, chief of the DNR's Parks and Recreation Division. “The sign reductions will result in less clutter along the trails and provide for more consistency statewide.”
In addition, new ORV trail confidence markers will be phased in over the next several years as funding allows. The new ORV trail markers will be yellow to distinguish them from snowmobile trails. For additional information, please contact Steve Kubisiak, DNR Recreation and Trails Program coordinator at 517-373-1665 or via e-mail at kubisiaks@michigan.gov.
__________________
-- Neil
VP Straits Area Snowmobile Club
Snow VP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 02:27 PM   #3
MJA
Trail Master
 
MJA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ft. Wayne IN
Posts: 199
Default Re: Trail Signage 2012-2013

If they are going to do away with the "bridge ahead" and "narrow bridge" signs then it seems useless to have "private drive ahead" signs. Both are moguled up and just asking for disaster.


Of course I would only be concerned if I was a trail rider. No signs warn me of snow covered ditchs or stumps out boondocking.


Or fallen down trees on a portage trail, eh bsutter01!
__________________
08/09 MSA family member
09/10 MSA family member
10/11 MSA family member
11/12 MSA family member
12/13 MSA family member
13/14 MSA family member
14/15 MSA family member
15/16 MSA family member

MJA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 07:29 PM   #4
polaris4me
Trail Master
 
polaris4me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pigeon, MI.
Posts: 950
Default Re: Trail Signage 2012-2013

From what I have heard there will still be the yellow/black stripe sign on the bridges.
__________________
Kevin
Straits Area Snowmobile Club

M.S.A.
Support the people that support this sport !
polaris4me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 11:04 PM   #5
con-fusion
Trail Master
 
con-fusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: celina
Posts: 426
Default Re: Trail Signage 2012-2013

MJA, have you seen that Chevron sign when you are out Boondocking, can't say that I have seen it on the trail.

con-fusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 08:44 AM   #6
bsutter01
Liquid Cooled
 
bsutter01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ft. Wayne, IN
Posts: 30
Default Re: Trail Signage 2012-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJA View Post
If they are going to do away with the "bridge ahead" and "narrow bridge" signs then it seems useless to have "private drive ahead" signs. Both are moguled up and just asking for disaster.


Of course I would only be concerned if I was a trail rider. No signs warn me of snow covered ditchs or stumps out boondocking.


Or fallen down trees on a portage trail, eh bsutter01!
Correct there MJA. If there would have been a warning sign of fallen trees across that portage trail I would have never gone there. But again, we were not on the "trails" but boondocking.
bsutter01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 10:22 AM   #7
Schuie
Trail Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Posts: 65
Default Re: Trail Signage 2012-2013

So, did i read that right, corners that are more than 90 degrees will get a sign. I think I could get used used to that. The only thing I'm going to have trouble with is no bridge ahead sign. It would be like only having the exit sign at the exit ramp and no warning before it. But it is what it is, fortunately I've rarely found much grade change between the trail and bridges in the straits area.
Schuie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 05:49 PM   #8
Snow VP
Administrator
 
Snow VP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Ignace
Posts: 2,825
Default Re: Trail Signage 2012-2013

That release is a bit deceiving. Things are going to be clarified to me further at the pre-season meetings, but as I understand it now, pretty much plan on riding without corners being marked, as there won't me many.

In gerneral things are going to be signed to avoid confusion as to where you are going, not all of the little hazards that a trail brings - like turns and things.

In the meetings I attended 2+ years ago, I told them I was in favor of alot of what they were proposing, I did single out bridges and ask that they continue to be marked. They will still have the striped hazard markers, but no upcoming warning signs.
__________________
-- Neil
VP Straits Area Snowmobile Club
Snow VP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2012, 02:17 AM   #9
Gunner F5
Trail Master
 
Gunner F5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Monroe Mi
Posts: 378
Default Re: Trail Signage 2012-2013

That will be fun for people riding the grade out of Newberry towards Paradise for the first time. No warning signs for those bridges that are narrow and always whooped out on a busy weekend should result in a few accidents. While you should never ride faster than your ability to read and adjust to changes in the terrain your riding on, long stretches of flat grade without warning signs for upcoming bridges is asking for trouble.
Gunner F5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2012, 09:15 AM   #10
MJA
Trail Master
 
MJA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ft. Wayne IN
Posts: 199
Default Re: Trail Signage 2012-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner F5 View Post
That will be fun for people riding the grade out of Newberry towards Paradise for the first time. No warning signs for those bridges that are narrow and always whooped out on a busy weekend should result in a few accidents. While you should never ride faster than your ability to read and adjust to changes in the terrain your riding on, long stretches of flat grade without warning signs for upcoming bridges is asking for trouble.
Amen! The sport of snowmobiling is already hurting so why not take away a few bridge signs so more accidents happen or even worse a few deaths. Somebody has there head in there arse on this whole sign issue.
__________________
08/09 MSA family member
09/10 MSA family member
10/11 MSA family member
11/12 MSA family member
12/13 MSA family member
13/14 MSA family member
14/15 MSA family member
15/16 MSA family member

MJA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2012, 12:00 PM   #11
Wink
Trail Master
 
Wink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Celina, OH
Posts: 1,411
Default Re: Trail Signage 2012-2013

I agree that many of those signs are overkill. Winding trail, steep hill, two way traffic, drift area. C'mon, those are just constants of trail riding. As stated above, I think they should keep "bridge ahead" signs. The trail almost always narrows and gets extremely rough at the beginning of a bridge. Not posting a warning is asking for trouble.
I do think the elimination of signage will slow the riders down that are new to an area, but not the ones who ride the area regularly.
__________________
Member:
Straits Area Snowmobile Club
MSA


"Do the right thing because it's the right thing to do!"


Wink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 11:35 PM   #12
Schuie
Trail Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Posts: 65
Default Re: Trail Signage 2012-2013

I was UP this weekend, and I remembered all of the places where the trail hits the road for a while and ducks back into the woods, will those still have chevrons or will we everyone be sliding by and then turning around? I think that for the most part the program will be good, and will put less burden on trial signers and clubs, but with any new program there will bugs that will have to be worked out.
Schuie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 10:22 AM   #13
Snow VP
Administrator
 
Snow VP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Ignace
Posts: 2,825
Default Re: Trail Signage 2012-2013

There will always be a sign to tell you what way to go. Chevrons are gone, but there will be a new arrow that looks like the ones on sharp county roads, like the orange signs, but yellow. There is also a newer sign that will be used ahead of a branch in the trail that will tell you what way to go. But once you are on a trail without a choice on where to go, you will not see arrows at all of the curves and turns in the trail.

On bridges, remember, you will still have the hazard markers on either side of the trail, so unless you are doing 90, you will be able to see one coming up - maybe not as much at night, but we put them up high enough that you will be able to see them from a distance. In fact we are going to have to do some bridge railing work this fall, and making sure the integrated sign posts are there will be a priority.
__________________
-- Neil
VP Straits Area Snowmobile Club
Snow VP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 11:10 PM   #14
Schuie
Trail Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Posts: 65
Default Re: Trail Signage 2012-2013

Definitely sounds like it is going to be a big project this fall. Hopefully the house is all done and I can finally help, like I have been wanting to for last couple of years.
Schuie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ? 2016 - Straits Area Snowmobile Club